Heather Crabtree [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Your Savvy Business, a podcast for experienced online coaches and service pros who want to unlock your next level in business without compromising your goals, priorities, and values or sacrificing your boundaries. I'm your host, Heather Crabtree, your savvy business coach and growth strategist. I know you're not new to this business thing, friend. You're more than five years in, and you feel like you should have everything figured out by now. You've learned that every time you grow to new heights, new opportunities open up and new challenges arise. Each chapter brings a new level of what the heck am I doing? And you wish you had someone to support you when things start to feel hard, or a business pro to help you see your business in another light and decide what next steps to take. I am here to help well, me and some amazing friends who happen to be really good at their craft as well. You can think of me as your business coach and growth strategist in your back pocket who can connect you to the most brilliant people and share the good, the bad, and the I want to quit my business moments that we all have in our business but usually never talk about.
Heather Crabtree [00:01:08]:
There will be laughs and tears and meaningful lessons revealed along the way. I hope you will hit subscribe and join us as we navigate business and life together, and you can hop over to Heathercraptree.com to learn more. Now let's jump into today's episode. Okay. Welcome, topsy. So today we're going to be talking all about emotional intelligence mindset. I've been so excited.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:01:40]:
I'm so pumped, so pumped.
Heather Crabtree [00:01:43]:
So I like to bring people on that I've actually experienced working with them. And Topsy, I took her destroy the Mindset drama course, and I loved it. I have a whole notebook of notes that I refer back to all the time highlighted with my type A psychotic.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:02:06]:
I feel so honored.
Heather Crabtree [00:02:09]:
Yeah. So I worked with Topsy in that capacity, and we've also been in a program together. And so I really learned more about you there and really just adore you. So I have to say that at the beginning, I think what you have to offer entrepreneurs, I just want to say, listen up, people, because I think this is one of the things as entrepreneurs, that in the beginning or even now, my audience is five or more years in, they think it's, well, it's a nice to have. And I'm like, no, this is a you have to have, or when you continue on, you will struggle a lot.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:02:55]:
Heather Crabtree [00:02:56]:
And so talk to me about kind of what you seen as I think there's a difference in when you're starting your business and the kind of the things, the mindset, emotional intelligence stuff that we go through then to when you've been in business for a while, it's like a whole new level of emotional intelligence and mindset going through. So talk to me about what you and experienced.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:03:19]:
Yeah, definitely. So hi everybody. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. So when we're talking about mindset and emotional intelligence work, so first I think it's really important for us to kind of identify what do those words even mean? Because I do think in an industry where and specifically the digital entrepreneur online based industry, there's a lot of chatter about emotional intelligence and how to run your business using EQ and mindset work is important or mindset work is just fluffy work. There's a lot of myths that I just want to debunk super quick with talking about what those things mean. So your mindset, mindset is your perspective and the way that you choose to see the world, your perspective on things. So your mindset is not the same as your mental health.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:04:20]:
And that is where a lot of people tend to mix up the two. And that's where a lot of people, coaches especially, can get into some trouble because they think that both things are the same. Your mental health is your baseline level of functioning that allows for you to live, do, be and show up in your life the way that you need to, right? This is what allows for you to wake up in the morning and feel positive instead of feeling like everything is falling apart, right? This is what allows for you to operate at a capacity that allows for you to serve as the wife of your partner or at work, right, that allows for you to show up. Your mental health, your mindset is your perspective on things and how it impacts your thoughts and how it impacts the way in which you behave. So for instance, if your mindset is that, for instance, business is I'm just going to throw just a random belief out there, so just stick with me guys. Business is hard. Everything about business is hard, right? Business is about pulling yourself up from your bootstraps and everybody needs to do it the exact same way. And if you aren't pulling yourself up from your bootstraps, then you're not doing business, right? And that is a mindset.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:05:30]:
That's a mindset that you have that can be adjusted and shifted, but nine times out of ten you have that mindset because of your environment or because of who you are, the family you grew up in, the people you surround yourself with at work, et cetera. So that's your mindset. Your mindset is your perspective. And then emotional intelligence is your ability to recognize how to read the room, how to read the emotions of others and yourself and to be able to behave accordingly or to make the appropriate decisions or actions from that place. So emotional intelligence is your ability to be able to recognize when you need to behave or show up or say things in a certain way. So for instance, emotional intelligence skills comes in. For instance for instance, if I'm guest coaching to a group of CEOs that have expressed that they don't appreciate any type of woo in the way that I am teaching, but yet I still choose to teach that woo. Topic.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:06:38]:
I have to know that they are not going to probably be receptive to that because they already said that they weren't open and so they're not going to really receive what they need to hear from me because I didn't read the room.
Heather Crabtree [00:06:51]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:06:51]:
I didn't demonstrate that I understood how serious that is for that group of people.
Heather Crabtree [00:06:59]:
Yeah, I love how you're distinguishing these things because I could all get wrapped up into like, one, and it's not they're not the same. So I love that.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:07:08]:
Oh, I'm so glad.
Heather Crabtree [00:07:09]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:07:09]:
I was thinking, like, I really want for people to walk away from this episode really feeling like they understand they have a baseline understanding of what I'm even talking about because I have gone on podcasts and just talked about it. But then afterwards, people ask me in the DMs, what does emotional intelligence actually mean? Right. And it's a set of behaviors or it's a set of behaviors that demonstrate that you understand what people are needing and how you need to respond. Right. So you're responding to the actions, the emotions of others that they're demonstrating. And so that's EQ. And so from that, I would say from when you're a beginner business owner, you're going to have, like you mentioned at the beginning of the episode, maybe struggles with impostor syndrome, maybe struggles with self sabotage, maybe low self esteem, maybe feelings of inadequacy. And you might think that once you get to a certain income amount, or once you get to a certain number of team members, or once you get to this certain imaginary place in your business, that those issues will no longer be there.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:08:15]:
And you're wrong. And there's nothing wrong with you if that's the case.
Heather Crabtree [00:08:20]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:08:20]:
There's nothing wrong with you if you do get to a stage in your business where you have more money, you have more resources, you have more privilege, you have more freedom, but yet you still don't feel completely fulfilled or settled, that's okay. It's okay because that comes with the territory, right? New levels, new devils. And so what I notice on the back end with a lot of CEOs is they think that a lot of money is going to solve a lot of their underlying problems. Now, let's not get it twisted. Money absolutely can solve money based problems.
Heather Crabtree [00:08:54]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:08:55]:
Can we just say that?
Heather Crabtree [00:08:57]:
Yeah, we need to acknowledge that.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:08:59]:
We need to acknowledge that that having more money can absolutely change someone's financial situation.
Heather Crabtree [00:09:06]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:09:07]:
But it does not change the condition of the heart, and it does not change their emotional capability.
Heather Crabtree [00:09:15]:
Oh, yes, right.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:09:18]:
And you and I talked off the mic about this, like, how you can have all the money in the world, but when life happens, you realize that none of that shit fucking matters.
Heather Crabtree [00:09:30]:
What actually matters, and I think what we were talking about is that I said when I was I had a lot of things happen to me when I was really young. People that know me know that my dad passed away when I was younger. I had a lot of family members pass away in a matter of like five to ten years, and it was like every year. And then my dad passed away right before September 11, and then recently my daughter passed away. And I think that I feel like I have been through a lot. Right. And then I have been able to manage those. But one of the things that was, I will say harder than during that time was when I took time off.
Heather Crabtree [00:10:13]:
When I took time off. And I want to talk to you about this because this was huge for me. I had to realize that my identity was not only as an entrepreneur and mother, right. I was like, I'm Heather, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a mom.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:10:28]:
Heather Crabtree [00:10:29]:
And my identity was wrapped around. So I think that I see that not only but then also I see when this did happen with people passing away in my life, I saw how I was saying off the mic that I realized back long ago that the money doesn't matter. In that sense. Yes. It doesn't come with you. And the emotions right. For everyone else are still there. Yes.
Heather Crabtree [00:11:07]:
You don't have the tools to manage that within your business, within your life, with everything. You can really struggle. And if you've not been given any type of tools before, then I was lucky in that my parents were really supportive of me. I always had that feeling of I can do anything, I'll just make it happen. That is a privilege that I felt like that if you don't come from that and then you have pile on. Pile on. Pile on. Pile on.
Heather Crabtree [00:11:39]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:11:40]:
Heather Crabtree [00:11:42]:
If you're not given the tools or accepting of the tools, I've learned as well.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:11:47]:
Yes. Accepting of them, which is a whole nother topic. Right, right.
Heather Crabtree [00:11:50]:
Especially when you're in business. And I feel like you feel like you should have your shit together. Right. Probably most people that you work with, they're afraid of people thinking that they don't have all their shit together when, let's be honest, none of us do.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:12:10]:
None of us do. And if you think you do, that's part of the problem. And it's not to say that your life needs to be in disarray or that you can't be content, but your life isn't perfect.
Heather Crabtree [00:12:23]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:12:24]:
And so we are always going to have an area of our lives that's looking better than the other or that feels better than the other, and that's okay. But what I notice with a lot of business owners, especially the longer they've been in business, is they get caught up with these all or nothing thought patterns about, I shouldn't still be struggling with this now, or if I'm struggling with this, what does this mean about me? The biggest thing I hear is the income roller coaster from a lot of solopreneurs. It's really difficult for them to accept that that is a part of the journey.
Heather Crabtree [00:12:56]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:12:56]:
It's a part of the journey to learn how to manage your money. It's a part of the journey to learn how to not make the money that you are making. Be your whole identity. Because what happens in the seasons where it's just not there.
Heather Crabtree [00:13:08]:
Yeah, because you will have those seasons regardless. Regardless talk about them well.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:13:13]:
They don't want to believe that. They think that they can avoid I think I have content around this. They think that they can avoid the ebbs so that they can experience the flow. So a lot of people try to avoid the ebbs and spending all your time trying to I'm not saying not to set your business up for success. I'm not saying not to have payment plans or whatever that helps you and your business feel secure. But it's really about financial management at the end of the day. Whether you have MRR. CRR, mor, whatever the fuck you want to call it, you got to make sure you are just managing the money that does come in and recognizing what you're going to do in the event that money just isn't there.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:13:58]:
How are you going to handle it emotionally? How are you going to handle it fiscally? How are you going to handle it when it comes to the impact that could have on your family? That's what it's all about at the end of the day. But a lot of business owners, they believe that when they make more money, that's when they'll feel more successful or when they make more money or when they have more of a team or it's always this like when I get there. And a lot of the time what I like to do with my clients is ask them what would happen if you decided to accept that you are where you've always wanted to go. What if this is the best that it gets?
Heather Crabtree [00:14:35]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:14:37]:
What if you are living your wildest dream already?
Heather Crabtree [00:14:41]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:14:43]:
It's a huge perspective shift when you look at it from that perspective. When you think about it as it's not about me not wanting to have goals or not having a vision, it's how can I become okay with right now?
Heather Crabtree [00:14:58]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:14:59]:
What would it take for me to be okay with where I am in this moment? Because that ends up being the crux of a lot of dissatisfaction about your business. I shouldn't still be dealing with this.
Heather Crabtree [00:15:14]:
Okay. I have to share the story. So this has happened to me recently over the past year. So I was talking with my therapist and I kept saying, I just want business to be like and what I was realizing was she goes, well, who are you battling against? You know how people say they talk to their inner child? I didn't need to talk to my inner child. I needed to talk to 36 year old Heather, who I think I was 36 then. It was pre cancer. That's really for me, there's such a so what I've had to really work on is disconnecting the wires that have attached, because what happened was what was happening. I had just come off a really great conference that I had hosted.
Heather Crabtree [00:16:14]:
I had a group program running. I had just launched a membership that was amazing. I felt like I was at my peak. I was on the I was doing it all. I was like, the peak of my entrepreneurship, especially in the consulting and coaching world. And then cancer knocked at our door and blew our world apart. And that was six years ago. And I think back to so I guess I was a little bit older, but I think back to so she said, who is that person that you keep trying to be?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:16:47]:
Heather Crabtree [00:16:47]:
And I said, I just remember what it felt like before all that happened. And she said, do you see how it's not just about you as an entrepreneur and what was happening? And I've worked with a coach before that really was like, we've got to take these wires. Physically, your brain has wired together these things that happen. And so what would happen was every time I would launch something, it would be super hard for me because I would think something bad was going to happen. Wow. Because that was such a I and then I almost felt like I would connect things that felt like it was happening again. So, like, when London relapsed the first time with Was again, I had just launched something. And I was like my brain was like, every time you launch something, shit goes down for your family or London.
Heather Crabtree [00:17:46]:
And I was like, my brain is telling me, no, we don't want that anymore. We got to stop this. And I felt like when I was doing things I love what I do so much to my core, but I felt like I was self sabotaging because I was so afraid of what physically would happen to a family member that will mess with you.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:18:14]:
It does. And I can see why that was happening.
Heather Crabtree [00:18:17]:
Yeah. And so I know that's more of like, I had to do deep therapy, but those are the kind of things that you tie together. And are they reality? Yes. Did those things happen?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:18:29]:
Heather Crabtree [00:18:30]:
Happen at the same time frame? Yes. But are they a cause and effect? No.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:18:35]:
Yes. And that's the hardest part, is accepting that it wasn't a cause and effect. Right. But it can feel like that it feels like those two are interconnected and so then it becomes this cyclical merrygor round right, where you would launch and then you thought everything's going to come apart beneath my feet.
Heather Crabtree [00:18:58]:
Yeah, I also felt because I want to get your thoughts around this. I know you have so much goodness on this. I also felt that I was behind because London and my family was my priority. So I knew I was not going to give everything to my business, the business that I had, the clients that I had, I was great to them, of course, but I knew when it came down to it, like London was my first priority, my family my first priority. And so the other thing that I've had to struggle with and really get tools around is that I'm not less of a person because I had to pull back from my business because I think it was just so ingrained in me because I started a business when I was 24, 23, 24, that I've always been an entrepreneur. And so feeling less than and I felt like the world around me. And actually, you and I were in a program together when all this was happening inside my head. And I would cry.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:20:04]:
Yes, I do remember that very vaguely. I do remember that because I was.
Heather Crabtree [00:20:10]:
Really struggling with my identity as because I was seeing all of my friends hit multiple million, all this stuff was happening and I felt like, fuck you. Yeah, your child didn't have cancer and I almost had like this anger inside.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:20:28]:
Heather Crabtree [00:20:28]:
Yeah, well, what if you had first of all, you don't know what these people are going through and second of all, why are you comparing it like you are doing what you want to do? You have the business still, but you're taking care of your family, that's who you are. So why are you struggling so much with this?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:20:47]:
So anyway, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts just like in general. This is so good. Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for sharing that because it is in direct correlation to what I was talking about. But also what I was going to say is I think something that just from what you mentioned, something that a lot of business owners struggle with when it comes to shit hitting the fan in their personal life and in their business is allowing themselves to process and have that grief.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:17]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:21:18]:
So not only was there you had every right to be angry. That's the first thing that I wanted to say is that your response is actually normal. Yeah, it's very normal. Now, could it have been maladaptive if it kept going? Sure, it probably could have affected the way in which you felt about your business and the industry, et cetera. However, your response though was still normal. Of course you're going to feel angry, envious, resentful, whatever, jealous, whatever those feelings were they were valid.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:50]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:21:50]:
Because what was happening to your family wasn't fucking fair.
Heather Crabtree [00:21:53]:
Right? Yeah. Right.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:21:55]:
And so I think one of the things that for us as business owners to do is to allow ourselves to grieve, whatever that is, whether it's a loss, whether it's an identity.
Heather Crabtree [00:22:05]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:22:06]:
You are experiencing a really unwanted identity shift. You did not want to have to do that in the way that you did it and for the reasons that you did it. And that is valid in and of itself. And so I think the more that we allow ourselves to be fully human and allow for our business to hold our humanity yes. Our business can handle it. Right. It can handle you taking a step back and deciding to revisit it later. Because your business is your vehicle.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:22:43]:
Your business is your vehicle to how you choose to serve the world. It does not need to be your everything. It does not need to be your identity. And so the way in which you are choosing to see your business is actually very healthy. Why? Because you have other priorities. Your business is just the vehicle. It is not the dream. And so the guilt that you felt about not being able to focus on your business may have had something to do with your beliefs at the time about your identity as a business owner, that it needed to be either or.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:23:20]:
And that was never true.
Heather Crabtree [00:23:23]:
Because I have a whole episode about it where I talk about it, where one of the lessons I learned during the time, because it was COVID happening. I had a baby at the time. We had London relapsing, new house, I had started homeschooling. It was like all the things, I mean, extremes all at once. And I was like, what the hell is going?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:23:43]:
Heather Crabtree [00:23:44]:
So I made the decision. I was like, you know, just I can't take on any more business. And financially, I needed to take on business, but emotionally I was like, I'm spent. I cannot do this. But it was interesting because all the things that was going on, you would think that the emotions would have been around those they weren't. It was about me having to really learn that my identity was wrapped up in being an entrepreneur, how to live without it. It was the craziest feeling I've ever had. And I was just like, I don't know how.
Heather Crabtree [00:24:20]:
And so I talked about this on another episode and I had so many people that reached out and was like, I have felt that or I'm feeling it now. And so this is why I wanted to talk about it, because I think so many people are ashamed of it.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:24:32]:
Yes. And there's nothing to feel ashamed of. And I think that if you see that there are people who have said that my business is my priority. Yada, yada yada. That is the choice that they are making. And that's okay. But your choice doesn't have to look like theirs in order for it to be the right one. And so for me, I choose to have my business be my vehicle to how I want to serve the world.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:24:58]:
And it allows for me to do the things that I also want to do that fulfill me. There are other things outside of my business that fulfill me. And when we make that part of our mission, to find outside things outside of your business, outside of that one identity, to make you feel whole when you decide to find those things outside of just that, it really helps decrease the amount of shame and resentment and anger that you might feel towards someone else that's able to go all in when you just don't have that desire.
Heather Crabtree [00:25:33]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:25:33]:
And so not making ourselves wrong.
Heather Crabtree [00:25:37]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:25:38]:
For our desires.
Heather Crabtree [00:25:40]:
Yeah. Okay, let's talk about some other things that you see come up with experienced business owners that again, and I say they, but I should say we, because I'm we, right things right, that come up that you see them struggling with or feeling like everything I feel like a lot of things come back to shame. They feel shamed by it. Right? They feel like, if I feel this, if I'm feeling this way, or if I say it out loud, it makes me lesser than an entrepreneur of a person, of a human, which is like.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:26:18]:
We make up these rules. So some of the things that I noticed that tends to come up for people who have been in business five years plus. So one of those things is boredom. There is something that happens, I think I call it like the glitch, where you're like, why are things so easy for me? I want to shake shit up and make shit more complicated. And so sometimes that can also lead to feelings of inadequacy. I'm bored in my business. I don't know. Things are just working so well, but I just don't feel fulfilled.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:26:55]:
And so we have this aversion to boredom. We feel as if we're bored and there's no chaos. Then something needs to be shaken up. And that is also not the truth. That does not mean that there's something wrong. But for a lot of business owners, we're always waiting for this other shoe to drop. And so for there to be nothing dropping, it's very uncomfortable for a lot of business owners. So that's an issue that I noticed coming up.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:27:22]:
The other thing I think that also comes up is what's the word? Self sabotaging from being as visible as what you could. So you're not pitching yourself for those events. You kind of start only being around your peers that you've always associated with, but you kind of don't put yourself out there again to feel uncomfortable. That is another thing.
Heather Crabtree [00:27:48]:
I just raising my hand at all these things I have felt this so much. All of it. Not right now.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:27:55]:
The comfort zone thing. Yeah, the comfort zone thing, right. We get in our comfort zones and we don't always want to make ourselves feel uncomfortable. And so we just sometimes cockblock our ability to really have our message, be out there and in the world because we are too comfortable. And sometimes that has to do with not believing that your mission is that fabulous. You don't really think that what you do is that important. And so that's something that I have to work on with a lot of business owners behind the scenes, is really developing that confidence that just because what you're talking about is extraordinary and revolutionary to your clients, it doesn't mean that it won't be to a corporate audience. It's really about how can you repackage and reposition it so that it is something that they see value in, because what you do is valuable.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:28:49]:
But what I notice is a lot of business owners start to come up with all these reasons why somebody doesn't need their message or why they shouldn't write a book or whatever it is, and the world needs more of you, period, point blank.
Heather Crabtree [00:29:03]:
Want to be part of a community of experienced coaches and service pros who want to grow their business with intention. Head over to Heathercrafttree.com, not only for the show notes to this episode, but also to get your copy of my digital magazine, business Minded, a business magazine for experienced online coaches and service pros where business education, collaboration and community meet to help you unlock your next level in business and make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. And if you're loving it, I would love for you to leave a review. It means so much to me, and it's helpful to know you are listening and what you're loving. Okay, now let's get back to the show. I have a question for you.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:29:47]:
Heather Crabtree [00:29:48]:
Talked about this a little bit before. I'm going to put you on the.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:29:50]:
Spot for yes, please put me on the spot.
Heather Crabtree [00:29:52]:
The reason I want to ask this is because I would assume let's say I would assume that when people come to you, they're a little nervous because they're like, oh, she's a mindset person, and I think probably put you up on a pedestal and think that you don't go through some of the same everyone else does. So I would love to hear about something that gone through because I think it makes you I know when I'm hiring someone, I'm like, they're the expert in that. And I'm like, oh, gosh. It's okay. This is an example. You go to the accountant and you're like, shit, I got to get all my paperwork together, and I got to get it done right. Because if they really see the shit that's going down, like, whoa, they're never going to want to work with me, right? I have people they do do that.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:30:42]:
Heather Crabtree [00:30:42]:
Oh, shit. I can't come to you yet. And I'll my shit together. I need to get together.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:30:46]:
Heather Crabtree [00:30:47]:
I want people to let that go.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:30:50]:
I love that.
Heather Crabtree [00:30:52]:
Who have been in business for a while. I feel like we have. And again, I say we because I've been through all this too. And you either people have put us up on pedestals or sometimes you put yourself up on a pedestal and then you feel like, oh, gosh, I'm on the pedestal by myself just waiting to be knocked down. And you're worried about they're going to find out about this. They're going to find out that I don't know this. They're going to find out. What would it feel like if none of that was there and we were just allowed to be humans and show who we are? And I'm not saying you have to share every story, right? I'm a person that's like, I don't wait for the scar to happen.
Heather Crabtree [00:31:36]:
It's like I'm wounded and I'm going to tell you about it.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:31:38]:
I love that about you.
Heather Crabtree [00:31:41]:
Because I think people just relate to that too.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:31:44]:
They relate to either one.
Heather Crabtree [00:31:46]:
Right. But I also believe that it's helpful for us as whatever we're the expert in to really share. Like, look, I have that struggle too. So I would love to know for you what is one of those struggles that you have.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:32:02]:
Oh, girl, let me count the was. I actually told my girl Jenna, jenna Kutcher. Some of you might know who she is. But anyway, this will probably get me emotional.
Heather Crabtree [00:32:19]:
We're okay with that here. We're okay with that here.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:32:22]:
So this was like, I think it was yeah, it was 2018 or something like that. And I experienced my first really it gets really deep, really heavy Depressive episode. And it was really bad. It was bad to it got really deep. Guys, I won't go too far in, but just know I know what it's like to feel like, would the world be okay with me not being here anymore? I had never had that thought before, ever. Always considered myself very positive, very bubbly, very happy. But mind you, entrepreneurship was hard. It was hard.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:33:05]:
I had my therapy practice, and I was seeing 35 people a week. And I was on, I believe, anxiety, I think, medications at the time. Anyways, my anxiety medication, it did not gel well with my body chemistry. And I ended up having that was the depressive episode, and it lasted for too long. It was like a month of me journaling and just trying to stay present, right? Trying to stay grounded using the tools that I teach my clients. None of my clients knew. I never rescheduled any appointments, nothing like that. I just dealt with it.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:33:42]:
I was showing up online. I was doing all the things nobody would have, girl, nobody. Because I am the queen at Masking. That's some tough shit. Well, I was journaling. And I had pitched Jenna Kutcher's podcast. Like, I pitched her podcast during that. And because I wanted to push myself, I wanted to really show, like, I deserve to be here.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:34:07]:
Anyways, long story short, I still have that journal, but I got through it. I got through it with therapy. I got through it with using my own skills, my own tools, embodying what I had learned. And I'm just such a better person for it because my compassion meter is through the fucking roof, because I deeply get it. And of course, I've had depressive spouts since then, off and on. But that was the first time that I had ever experienced what my clients came to me experiencing, and it was a complete mindfuck. And so I told Jenna a couple of years later, I ended up on her podcast. And I truly believe that I manifested that.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:34:49]:
I truly do believe that because I put that into writing. So that was one instance where I just remember deeply understanding what it's like to run a business and have lots of mental health stuff going on that you don't feel like you can share. Right? And so that was something that I experienced, that I was just so grateful that I had my tools and that I was able to still help my therapy clients during that time. I'm not proud that I didn't take time off, but I'm really happy that I didn't, to be honest, because all of it gave me purpose. So I know what it's like to find needing something to hold on to.
Heather Crabtree [00:35:26]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:35:27]:
Finding that purpose.
Heather Crabtree [00:35:28]:
Yeah. I have similar but similar where people have asked me, they still ask me to this day, how were you able to keep your business going when London got diagnosed and going through because it was intense. There was a part where we were doing bone marrow transplants back to back, and we were in isolation for a month in the hospital each time with this is we also had Lane. This is before Lavender, but we also had Lane, who was four or five at the time. And so we were having to parent both kids, but London had to be in the hospital, and we had didn't come home, and we didn't have help at the time either. Now we have a nanny. But before. And I just remember I was like, actually, this is maybe not always healthy too, but my business gave me purpose, and it was a coping and healing mechanism for me and always has been, because I know I'm so good at what I do that I was like, okay, I'm giving in a lot of ways, but I can't give in certain ways because I was restricted where we had to be.
Heather Crabtree [00:36:39]:
But I would take my computer and people would see it as, oh, my gosh, you're working at night. Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry. You have to work at night as like, the things are beeping and everything. I'm like, no, this allows me to heal, able to give back to others. And don't put me on a pedestal because I'm to do that, there are things I've had to go through or experience or tools that I've had to get here and accept to get here. And it wasn't easy at all. Like you said, incredibly, incredibly hard.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:37:09]:
Heather Crabtree [00:37:10]:
But sometimes it's okay to be like, you know what? Those moments, you were like, okay, but I got through it, given up. And if you did give up and I'm done with my business would have been okay too.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:37:25]:
Heather Crabtree [00:37:26]:
I don't want to shame or guilt people. They can't do that. But for me, my experience has been every time something happens and I'm struggling, my business really allows me I have to be careful because I with it. Right?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:37:42]:
Heather Crabtree [00:37:43]:
I don't know if you're the same way, but I can go really extreme.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:37:46]:
I'm a workhorse. I love what I do so much.
Heather Crabtree [00:37:50]:
Yes. Same. So my husband's like, Wait a minute, you've been working all day? Yes. And I'm like, oh, I'm the same way over here.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:38:00]:
I know. Like, don't mess with my vibe. I'm doing good at this point.
Heather Crabtree [00:38:04]:
It's healing. I think it's a little obsessive, and we're trying to not feel and I'm like, okay, sure, you're right. But I think there is some not some there is validity. And as an entrepreneur, you feel that most of us do what we do as entrepreneurs because we love what we do. I feel like sometimes during that time of when I was working, I don't know that people made me feel that guilt or shame. Maybe a little bit of both. But it was always this question of like, wow, you're able to still work and do this. It was one of those things of, like, your identity has to be one thing.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:38:47]:
Yeah. And it doesn't.
Heather Crabtree [00:38:49]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:38:50]:
And we are multifaceted people. I think something else that I thought that really helped me in my work was I became an accidental breadwinner. And so my husband's a doctor and he moved from Michigan to California. And during the height of the pandemic, the hospital he was working at, they laid off, like, 40 doctors. And so my husband had been there for a long time, and so it came as a shock. And so we sold our three bedroom, two and a half bath house and we had a pool. It was a fucking vibe, man. It was a vibe.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:39:21]:
But we knew what we were meant for greater. And so we ended up moving out here to Southern Cali. Had never lived out here before, and I was breadwinning, and I fucking hated it. And I just remember feeling like, I don't like like, I don't like feeling like I have to constantly be on because my business was not prepared to be the bread. I talked about it in my content. I talk about in my content. There's a piece of content I have where I say, stop forcing your business to be where it isn't yet it's like a fuck boy. Stop forcing that fuck boy to be a really good guy.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:40:02]:
He's not a good guy. He's a fuck boy from my business. Unfortunately, my business was the fuck boy. It was like we're during a pandemic. My husband's getting back on his feet, moving out here to Cali. I needed to make it do what it do, but it actually wasn't ready to sustain that type of momentum. And so it gave me so much compassion for Breadwinning CEOs who they don't believe that they have a choice, like they're the primary breadwinners. It's not because of a pandemic, it's just the way that it is.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:40:36]:
And how do you handle that? Which inspired me to recreate my therapy practice for Breadwinning CEOs and to really support them. So anyway, shameless plug there.
Heather Crabtree [00:40:47]:
I was going to plug you all over, so just go ahead, plug another.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:40:52]:
I have my mindset and emotional intelligence coaching business. And then I also have a therapy practice. They're two separate businesses can't be the same. And I work with clients in California and Michigan for the therapy practice. And of course, with coaching all over the world, I can work with whoever. But that helped me experiencing that myself and moving through it and using my tools and really being honest with myself, with my husband, being forced to have really honest conversations about money. Like, I lived it, I did it, and it was just so helpful in me really being able to tap into what CEOs are struggling with when they are the breadwinners and how it impacts the family dynamic and how it impacts the way they show up in their business and how they oftentimes leave themselves at the door. So they don't typically give to themselves as much because they believe everyone else needs a piece of the pie and their relationship with themselves is nonexistent.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:41:47]:
And so my therapy practice is born out of my own stuff and how I navigated it and my compassion to be able to help other people do that in the therapy world in teaching them the tools.
Heather Crabtree [00:42:02]:
Yeah. How felt kind of because I know for me when I came back, of course you're starting up again different way, but how has that felt for you? Because when I came back, I say I didn't completely leave my business, but I didn't take on clients. And when I came back, I was able to observe a lot during that time. And so I really came back with I felt like this fresh perspective, but also I had that impostor syndrome of like, I'm starting over, I have to start all over again. And what does that feel like? Did you go through similar things?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:42:38]:
Yeah. Oh my God. It was honestly really overwhelming because I know that I'm meant to do clinical work. That's a part of my DNA. My mom's a therapist. She's a social worker. I'm a social worker. My dad is from the humanities.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:42:57]:
He studies sociology and anthropology. So I come from a family where that is a part of our dynamic. We care about people and people and why they behave the way they do. And so I know clinical work is a part of how I'm supposed to serve the world, but yet it's really fucking hard to do that as a solopreneur and to start up another business. There was definitely feelings of it shouldn't be this hard. It's tough as shit. It is tough, especially now. It was easier, I feel, and maybe you feel this way.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:43:32]:
I felt like it was easier to grow my account and my business circa 2017. 2018.
Heather Crabtree [00:43:41]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:43:42]:
And now people different now it's a totally different ballgame. Now we have TikTok and all of these things are good, but it's so much content creation that I've had.
Heather Crabtree [00:43:52]:
Now we're older. You're a lot younger than I am. But I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:43:57]:
How old are you, Heather? I can't tell. You look really young, by the way.
Heather Crabtree [00:44:01]:
I just turned 46, so I'm not older than I am.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:44:05]:
You look amazing. I'll be 35 this year. And you would think that I am a fucking grandma. I am the most dramatic.
Heather Crabtree [00:44:12]:
No, I'm so dramatic.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:44:14]:
I'm so dramatic, though.
Heather Crabtree [00:44:18]:
I totally feel what you're saying. It is much harder to grow. And I think that there's a good point, and I think we need to make this, that I think that the people that were able to grow during that time and grow their businesses became these, like, quote unquote sensations. Of course you're trying to teach people to grow your business in the same way that they did, and it doesn't work anymore.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:44:43]:
It doesn't work anymore. It's completely different. The market is so much more sophisticated, which is good even for the therapy world. She was a therapist, business coach, joined her year long program. And it's great. It's fantastic. It's definitely a different mindset, different ballgame, because people are really therapized and they're really educated. So it's really not about teaching for me, at least in therapy world, like, how to stuff, it's not about that.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:45:13]:
It's more about teaching them how to think about the problems that they're experiencing.
Heather Crabtree [00:45:18]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:45:18]:
And so it's a completely different landscape. When I grew my private practice, I had a brick and mortar. I went to doctors offices. I created relationships with the office managers. I fucking up flyers, guys. You get it?
Heather Crabtree [00:45:33]:
Yeah. Same thing. I had Grind and it was like you were in it all the time.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:45:38]:
You were in it all the time.
Heather Crabtree [00:45:39]:
I've heard you talk about this when you went into being an online business owner, you were like, whoa, this is.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:45:45]:
A completely different type of networking. Right?
Heather Crabtree [00:45:48]:
Same thing happened, but it's not easy.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:45:50]:
So I've really had to use a lot of my own skills on myself, which is I have a very unique skill set that I can do anything I want here's. The other thing I want to share with your audience is that don't be afraid of change and of pivoting and adjusting an idea. Right. I realize I don't have the bandwidth. I don't have the bandwidth to market my therapy business the way that I really want to. So guess what? I'm doing independent contractor work.
Heather Crabtree [00:46:17]:
Self employed. Yeah.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:46:19]:
You all are allowed to be self employed without having to burden yourself with doing all of the marketing and all of the selling for all of these fucking businesses. We are not machines. Allow things to be easy.
Heather Crabtree [00:46:33]:
Yeah. I also think that we don't connect the dots a lot of times. I've talked about this a lot in the past. But I feel like we want to silo everything. Right. But the brilliance that you have that you've gained over the years from having your private practice to being an online coach and being in that now you get to bring all of that with you and into this new thing, and you still have the other stuff. Right. But I think what happens is we don't see that when it's happening.
Heather Crabtree [00:47:04]:
No. We silo it and we're like, okay, this business. I'm sure that there are people well, I'm sure that there's people that don't know you hiring you for a therapist, and I know they can't hire you for a therapist and a coach. We think, okay, well, what am I in this world? Like? I used to be a therapist, right? People saw me as that, and then I was a coach.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:47:26]:
It's a huge identity.
Heather Crabtree [00:47:28]:
Yeah. And it's like, no, those all connect. And guess what? That is? You as a human.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:47:33]:
Me as a human. And you guys, it's so interesting the way life works and the way if you allow your career to evolve, what I've really seen is that all of these things that combined who I am and how I choose to serve the world, it all makes sense now, right? So I'm doing more corporate consulting stuff, and then I want to write for Business Insider and Forbes. And so I've been pitching them. And you can be paid to write.
Heather Crabtree [00:48:02]:
I don't have to go to school.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:48:03]:
To become a journalist to do that. And I can write on subject matter that I really fucking care about topics that matter to me and be fucking paid for it. We write all this content anyways in our coaching businesses. Why don't you allow yourself to write content for other and get paid?
Heather Crabtree [00:48:25]:
I had this realization just really recently, I have never done corporate consulting because I came from like I worked for a law firm, and I was like, Never want that again. My husband's an attorney. We have all around us, and I'm like, you guys need to get with it. Things are still so old school in that world.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:48:48]:
They're very old school.
Heather Crabtree [00:48:49]:
Jesus drives me crazy. I had this in my head that I was like, I don't want to do corporate consulting or I don't want to work. I don't want a corporate environment or not even a corporate environment. I was putting in my head that I cannot do, like, a consulting contract for a high amount of money. When I have a law degree, I have a business degree. I am educated enough overqualified experience. Right. I recently just sent out a contract for $160,000, and I wanted to crap my pants.
Heather Crabtree [00:49:25]:
But I also know how much I'm going to help their business and whether I get it or not, either way, whoa. It opened up my mind to a whole new thing.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:49:35]:
Isn't that so freaking cool?
Heather Crabtree [00:49:38]:
And this was like, in the last week.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:49:42]:
We are so in y'all. I'm finding this out live. That is so cool. First of all, congrats on sending that out. I feel like we don't often realize how freeing it is to not allow just one section of your business to become your full identity.
Heather Crabtree [00:50:02]:
Yeah. I think I had in my head that I've done it this way and I've been testing, I've been experimenting, but I also am still kind of doing it similar. And I was like, you know what? I felt like this pull of, like, this is the time, and you are really good at this and you know this business really well. And again, whether she ends up bringing regardless yeah.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:50:30]:
It just opens up the opportunity for you.
Heather Crabtree [00:50:32]:
My gosh. And my husband looked at me and he was like, yeah, duh. Like, you're really brilliant. I was like, yeah, thank you. But I didn't see that part of me inside myself. And I think allowing I think as entrepreneurs, a lot of times we are so in the wheel. We are time to breathe.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:50:52]:
We don't to even dream and to think about, what else do I want to do? What else is possible for me? How can this look different?
Heather Crabtree [00:51:02]:
Yeah. And I get it. That's a privilege to be able to even pause, right?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:51:06]:
Heather Crabtree [00:51:06]:
And go, okay, well, what do I want? But this last week, I took a day and I was like, I really got to think through some things because I was getting stressed out about a whole bunch of stuff. And of course, there's a lot of grief and healing and all that stuff. So when you said that, I was like, yes. Isn't it interesting ourselves to really be fully human and go, what other things do yeah.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:51:34]:
What other things can I do that doesn't involve me getting a w two employee check? Because I can't do that. I just can't. I can't do that. I will be upside down on a corner, on a handstand before I fucking do that. I bet you that.
Heather Crabtree [00:51:52]:
Nothing wrong with that. But I'm the same.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:51:54]:
Nothing wrong with it. I can't do it. And so I love that for us, that it is a privilege. But I also think, too, it's our birthright.
Heather Crabtree [00:52:05]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:52:06]:
So really start seeing it as this is what you deserve. You deserve to be able to think and dream and to imagine. And even if you create two minutes while you're on the toilet, you get to do that. And how much more let's be honest.
Heather Crabtree [00:52:21]:
That's what I'm doing. It.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:52:22]:
Oh, of course. We're busy as fuck. We're busy as hell. But how can you give yourself permission to just dream for a minute? What would it look like if you were to something I like to do is I like to visualize myself, like, hosting. So this is like a really funny dream, but we're putting it out there.
Heather Crabtree [00:52:43]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:52:43]:
We're going to put it out. I would love to co host a show, like Too Hot to Handle or like one of these trashy, maybe. I don't want to call them trashy. Entertaining as fuck reality shows with couples. Or I want to facilitate. But actual real conversations around what's stopping them from having the relationships that they want, the love that they want. What's holding them back? I would love kind of like a love is blind, but with more of like a therapy angle.
Heather Crabtree [00:53:13]:
Right? Well, it's using your breadwinning CEO. Yes.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:53:18]:
It's using kind of that framework. I just feel like that could be so cool. It's like hosting something like that and being on TV in that way because I think I'm just such a natural at getting people to talk and feel open and all of that shit. And I just think it'd be so fucking sick. So I'm putting that out in the universe. But you guys start dreaming. Like, you get to dream, and I swear to God, you will magnetize these things to you.
Heather Crabtree [00:53:43]:
Oh, my gosh. You know what you should do?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:53:45]:
What do you think?
Heather Crabtree [00:53:46]:
Well, I think the next step for.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:53:48]:
You you sound like such a business coach. The next step.
Heather Crabtree [00:53:54]:
I always turn into a coach, like strategy. I'm like, okay, how can we get there sooner than expecting? So have you ever thought about I love when people do these YouTube things, but here's the thing with YouTube, it's like a lot. Right?
Topsie VandenBosch [00:54:07]:
It is a lot production.
Heather Crabtree [00:54:09]:
I know we're both connected to Jamar, and Jamar is going to be like, ladies, don't say it's a lot because.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:54:14]:
Then no one yeah, you're so right. Because Jamar will cuss us out.
Heather Crabtree [00:54:18]:
Yeah, he is going to cuss us out when he hears us. But I will say, for me, it feels like being on camera and you got whatever. But how cool would it be if you set up the scene to do kind of like some people do with podcasts, but you don't have the time to make that. Make it a special that you promote and that you have a few couples. Come on. Like, you do them separately, and you have it and you record it, and that's your content. But then it becomes your own show. You just make your show, right.
Heather Crabtree [00:54:54]:
You don't I actually love this.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:54:55]:
So not waiting for someone to do someone else to do it. No, you're creating yourself.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:01]:
Yes. Plus, it gives you content. It's going to get you clients.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:07]:
Oh, this is so good.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:10]:
And it's also for, like, it doesn't have to be ongoing. It could be it could be something. And then if you did want to pitch to I could use it as leverage.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:21]:
Like, here, I've already been proven.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:23]:
Look how great it was.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:25]:
Oh, this is genius.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:26]:
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:27]:
Yeah, I'm on it.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:28]:
I'll be thinking, here we go. Yes.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:30]:
I love this. You all just heard this live. This is amazing.
Heather Crabtree [00:55:35]:
I can't wait for you to make it happen. Okay. I know we could talk for hours, but I know people are going to be like, the podcast is usually 20 minutes, and this one's been like, I don't even know at this point. But it's all good. I think this is going to be so good for people to hear. I think it's going to uplifting and a weight off people's shoulders and people I think are going to really connect.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:55:59]:
With I think they will too.
Heather Crabtree [00:56:01]:
But before we go, I want you to be able to shout out all the things that you want to talk about for your own business. Yeah.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:56:09]:
Oh, my God. You're the best. So you guys, if you want to learn more about my framework, about how I help clients escape the Thought Spiral, you can download it www.topsyvanabosh.com/freebie. Terrible, terrible name on the fucking for SEO, but just type it in. I'll have it in the show notes. I do have a course, Escape the Thought Spiral if you want to join. That the course that she was talking about, that Heather was talking about. Destroy the mindset.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:56:37]:
Drama So I have different branches of my business. I have continuing education. So that's where I teach business owners, coaches, consultants, coaching skills, ways to make their programs better, ways to improve their relationship with their clients, and how to handle different situations with clients. So to show the mindset drama, I teach you evidence based coaching skills, teach you how to navigate difficult shit that comes up with your clients in the coaching relationship. You get tools, you get resources of how to handle it. All the things, all of that's on my website. So you can just go to my website, Topsyvanabosh.com, and just go to fucking Town. I have lots of things there for you.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:57:15]:
And you can follow me on social media at Topsy Vandenbosch on Instagram, and Topsy Van and Bosch on Facebook. I'm active there too, but yeah, that's.
Heather Crabtree [00:57:26]:
Where you can find what's your new.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:57:29]:
Yeah for Breadwinning CEOs. So Breadwinning CEOs. You can go to my Instagram is my therapist topsy. You can binge some of my posts and my reels there. I haven't created content there in a little while, but I plan on resuming that at some point. But you can go there. And I'm trying to think of what else. I feel like I have so much going on.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:57:52]:
Yeah. Follow me, guys.
Heather Crabtree [00:57:54]:
I want to say I just have to say again, if you're a coach, 1000% recommend destroy the mindset drama. It was really helpful for me. I go back to those notes all the time, especially if you have not for me. I came from being a business owner and having a business and law background and going into consulting and then what people like to call me a coach. I'm not licensed as a coach.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:58:25]:
You don't have to be.
Heather Crabtree [00:58:27]:
Coaching is a part of what I do. I'm a big strategist. But coaching comes in because I care about people's lives and that always comes up.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:58:35]:
Heather Crabtree [00:58:36]:
It was just wonderful to be able to go to that and be able to return to that. And I think that especially for people who don't have the license you need to go take that course, to have that in your toolbox. It's so wonderful.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:58:54]:
That link will be in the show notes too, guys. So go and just go and learn from and follow me on Instagram and tell us what you think of the episode. Tag us in your stories on Instagram. DM me. Let me know what you thought. If you love the episode. If it was uplifting for you, I would just love to know. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
Topsie VandenBosch [00:59:14]:
This has been a blast.
Heather Crabtree [00:59:15]:
I have loved it. Okay, we will talk to you soon. That wraps up another episode of your savvy business. Thank you for spending your time with me today. Until next time, my friends. Bye.